He was not “ in-character“ find yourself some time to read the comic.
Or speed-blitz like that? I am hearing a lot of claims, but they keep only bringing that single scan
Nobody here is making voice note, how the hell did “hear” but fail to see and read what was brought up? That single scan has context like Superman having hate on H’el, viewing him as a villain and alert.
I am not even denying. I am just asking for more evidence. Like, is this a high-end situation?
I won’t be the one to give this beca I’m not a Superman fan that keeps scans of him, probably the user you tagged can or you should go find more information about it.
Well, yeah, but Jean isn’t a speedster. She is a psychic, who reacts faster than the average human.
She has never been a speedster etc.
And, like I said before to someone else, Clark doesn’t constantly operate at that speed.
In this case he was at alert because a weird random alien is misguiding his cousin and appears to be a villain.
He raises his perception. Clark is not in constant super-speed mode 24/7.
He can even in-character he constantly uses operates at high speed level anytime he’s alert.
Telepaths have tagged Superman before with their powers.
Fast telepathic users you mean and give a confirmation or proof to it then?
Not all the time. This has been shown before.
You are not seriously comparing Superman perception to jean(who has awful speed feat below the likes of Spiderman) .
shown before.
I see in the earlier post you with Jim, you made mention of not knowing about DC, with this scan you clearly don’t. That Post crisis Superman and post crisis era, He’L is from New52 era same as the Superman and both New52 and post crisis Supermen has different personalities, New52 Superman appears more aggressive and mostly delivered killing blows.
Can you give me something to support H’el being consistently this fast? It feels like only one feat, which is the equivalent of someone only bringing Jean’s Gladiator feat.
It's not really the blitzing feat but the fact that no speed feat has been shown for jean to suggest that she'll attack before h'el. H'el has TK hax that he's not afraid to use and was shown to be at least on superman's level of speed or even faster, both in movement and perception, that's above Jean's pay grade. There's nothing stopping him from just blowing up her head.
Yeah I'm not seeing how 1 vague speed feat justifies H'El somehow being reliant on blitzing and ensuring he will do so against Jean.
Will you say that jean is on the same level of speed? H'el doesn't need to blitz to kill jean, he has TK that has done that, and his perception and general speed is on Kryptonian tier or above. I don't see why we would think that Jean would TP him faster than he'll TK her when she isn't faster.
”He was not “ in-character“ find yourself some to read the comic.”
I don’t know what:
”Find yourself some to read the comic”
is supposed to mean. If I am to guess, you’re trying to tell me to go read the comic myself. If so, then
1) No. You wanted to defend H’el. It’s your responsibility. I’m not doing the work for you.
2) If you want someone to go read where you got the feat from, at the very least post the comic issue. I am not going on a scavenger hunt for a random feat you were posting.
If you did not mean that, then I have nothing. You were not clear.
3) Every character has a preference, no matter what state they are in. Storm prefers to call down lightning on her opponent. She can do far more than that, but in combat, she appears to favor using it most often, barring scenarios where she knows the opponent well enough to go for a full-proof strategy.
That is taking character into account. Their preferences are part of their character. They are not robots that think of the best strategy….usually anyways. Point being, if I ask in-character, I mean is that what they prefer to do in combat? Or do they usually do something else?
“Nobody here is making voice note, how the hell did “hear” but fail to see and read what was brought up?”
I am trying to follow. But a wall of text for pages on end about the same feat, people sassing at each other, voting, and people arguing Sue vs Hal AFTER it is done is gonna get some things lost.
Cut me some slack, for Pete’s sake.
“That single scan has context like Superman having hate on H’el, viewing him as a villain and alert.”
Because the scan does not portray that. It’s posted without full context of what was going on.
I will grant you Clark probably does see H’el as a threat AFTER seeing Superboy taken hostage. But nothing in the scan suggests he sees H’el as a villain. It’s a scan of Supergirl stating Clark does not understand what something surviving Krypton would mean to her because he did not have that connection.
And we see Clark not notice H’el moving. But he is also not paying attention to H’el. He is talking to Supergirl. This single scan tells us that H’el would resort to taking a hostage and threatens to kill. It does not display what Clark full thinks of H’el, why Kara is defending H’el, or why Clark would think to turn his back on someone he thinks is a threat.
You think this single scan gives you all of the context, but that is because you have full context. I don’t. I am trying to learn the full context and see how consistent this is, but I don’t know you well enough to trust your word. And while I agree with Prof, I still take his word with a grain of salt. I don’t know what is what and here you’re deciding to scrutinize how I cannot take your word at face value. Smh
“I won’t be the one to give this beca I’m not a Superman fan that keeps scans of him, probably the user you tagged can or you should go find more information about it.”
That’s completely fine. I don’t expect everyone to have all the facts (unless they present themselves to be an authority on the subject).
“She has never been a speedster etc.”
Why are you repeating what I just said? You don’t come off smart doing that.
“In this case he was at alert because a weird random alien is misguiding his cousin and appears to be a villain.”
That was not in the scan. This context does help in explaining why Clark would be wary. It does not explain why he is wasting time talking to Kara instead of facing the alien while talking to Kara. If not even ignoring her to fight the alien.
And, again, I am asking for more than just this instance. I want to see how H’el normally fights. If this IS normal, then it shouldn’t be hard to bring more evidence of him with similar tactics.
“He can even in-character he constantly uses operates at high speed level anytime he’s alert.”
Okay, but he is not on high-alert all the time. Is he?
And this fight is not starting with him being on high-alert. He is starting with seeing his opponent as a combatant and deciding on how to proceed the fight. He has never met her before. She does not look dangerous. She looks like an average young woman.
This is why I am asking for more combat feats. To see how he typically acts in combat. Not a single scenario.
If I am wrong, then you or someone vouching for H’el needs to prove that. Not off of one scan. You don’t have to write paragraphs, but I do think what I ask for should be given, since I did not ask unkindly.
“Fast telepathic users you mean and give a confirmation or proof to it then?”
No. Telepaths (and telekinetics) and Astral forms in general. If they are competent, anyways.
I am vouching for hypersonic reactions, which is still much faster than the average human, but reasonable for Jean Grey to react to consistently. If the consistency of H’el fighting at this level can be proven, then, yeah, he would technically win. If we are dealing with high-ends, so be it, but I prefer to avoid high-ends.
“You are not seriously comparing Superman perception to jean(who has awful speed feat below the likes of Spiderman) .”
1) The hell? Being below Superman is not awful. What kind of scaling is this to where Superman is the bottom of the barrel who has to gatekeep what qualifies as good speed feats?
2) Since when are you the Jean expert around here? Last I checked, you had not presented what reaction speed Jean operates with on average, what her high-ends are, or what her outliers are.
3) They brought up Superman as a comparison based on him being caught off-guard. I was presenting that Clark does not operate on that super fast perception all the time. A reason why he could be caught off-guard in context of the scans. I had not made any connection with Jean yet at that moment.
“I see in the earlier post you with Jim, you made mention of not knowing about DC, with this scan you clearly don’t. That Post crisis Superman and post crisis era, He’L is from New52 era same as the Superman and both New52 and post crisis Supermen has different personalities, New52 Superman appears more aggressive and mostly delivered killing blows.”
Yeah. Did you think I was lying before?
I was under the notion that Rebirth was Prime Earth. That it initially was New-52, but the continuities got merged.
And this was not an issue of personality. It was an issue of mechanics on how Clark’s powers work. So, unless we have evidence that New-52 works differently, this was the logic I was operating on for Rebirth which is both canons of New-52 and the Post-Crisis versions in one.
Can you give me something to support H’el being consistently this fast? It feels like only one feat, which is the equivalent of someone only bringing Jean’s Gladiator feat.
It's not really the blitzing feat but the fact that no speed feat has been shown for jean to suggest that she'll attack before h'el. H'el has TK hax that he's not afraid to use and was shown to be at least on superman's level of speed or even faster, both in movement and perception, that's above Jean's pay grade. There's nothing stopping him from just blowing up her head.
It kind of is a speed-blitz feat. Jean is colliding with Gladiator in mid-air at high-speeds at the same time (after he charged forward first, no less). Jean is amped, but the question was on Jean’s speed. Not power.
And I was more proving a point of hinging on a single feat to carry a whole conversation.
No one has provided TK feats for H’el, so I can’t really combat that without context. I can understand people not properly vouching for Jean, since Prof has focused more on trying to debunk the feat rather than provide what Jean is capable of.
I myself am trying to learn as best I can about what H’el does in combat and fast he is, since it is a main topic of this debate going on. But all I have seen is a single feat. Nothing beyond it, despite the fact that I am being scrutinized by a different user for not taking it all at face value. Like, the boards have a knack for using high-ends and presenting them as averages, so I am trying to see if this is actually true.
Like, Jim actually presented some feats of what H’el could do psychically. I rebuttalled about their validity because of them not being combat based or being a statement, but it’s far more provided of what H’el can do. Will do is still in question.
1) No. You wanted to defend H’el. It’s your responsibility. I’m not doing the work for you.
2) If you want someone to go read where you got the feat from, at the very least post the comic issue. I am not going on a scavenger hunt for a random feat you were posting.
”Wanted” I have been defending him for a while now, and No it is not particularly my responsibility since you never tagged me but the other users. The scan is from Superman#14. That all i have to say, other reasons you’re bringing up aren’t good enough etc. Those are another forms of excuses in a long discussion but same result.
Can you give me something to support H’el being consistently this fast? It feels like only one feat, which is the equivalent of someone only bringing Jean’s Gladiator feat.
It's not really the blitzing feat but the fact that no speed feat has been shown for jean to suggest that she'll attack before h'el. H'el has TK hax that he's not afraid to use and was shown to be at least on superman's level of speed or even faster, both in movement and perception, that's above Jean's pay grade. There's nothing stopping him from just blowing up her head.
It kind of is a speed-blitz feat. Jean is colliding with Gladiator in mid-air at high-speeds at the same time (after he charged forward first, no less). Jean is amped, but the question was on Jean’s speed. Not power.
I'm talking about the fact that no one has brought evidence to show that jean will attack faster than h'el.
And I was more proving a point of hinging on a single feat to carry a whole conversation.
There is a large focus on that particular feat but in those arguments it was stated that h'el should be superman's equal at a bare minimum. Now, picture someone with superman's speed and processing power that can kill with a thought through TK, I don't see Jean being faster than that.
No one has provided TK feats for H’el, so I can’t really combat that without context. I can understand people not properly vouching for Jean, since Prof has focused more on trying to debunk the feat rather than provide what Jean is capable of.
I'll try to show his TK feats, but I know that superman and wonder woman couldn't react to it.
I myself am trying to learn as best I can about what H’el does in combat and fast he is, since it is a main topic of this debate going on. But all I have seen is a single feat. Nothing beyond it, despite the fact that I am being scrutinized by a different user for not taking it all at face value. Like, the boards have a knack for using high-ends and presenting them as averages, so I am trying to see if this is actually true.
The debate over that feat is a waste of time tbh, but look at it this way; both sides are debating, one has brought a feat for h'el and mention of speed for H'el while the other hasn't shown any for Jean, we can't say that it's a bias towards h'el while nothing has been shown for Jean, you have the right to contest h'el's performance over a single feat but looking at the arguments those that do not support h'el do not have any strategy to why jean should win, I have seen comments like that, why jean should win because of TP.
Like, Jim actually presented some feats of what H’el could do psychically.
I believe Quasar can shield himself long enough to K:O Black racer but I highly doubt it since Black racer can no sell supernova like nothing and probably faster given is chase against Wally and Barry.
@mykindofman: She was never a perfect match against someone like H’el only one person came out to defend her others went on parroting and headcannon here and there etc.
@mage101: I think overall, it was just a bad situation for me. I was not properly tagged (most likely comicvine being buggy again)to where I came in at the tail end with no time to debate and bring for Jean, no one was bringing Jean’s feats, and H’el’s supporters were hinging it on one feat.
1) No. You wanted to defend H’el. It’s your responsibility. I’m not doing the work for you.
2) If you want someone to go read where you got the feat from, at the very least post the comic issue. I am not going on a scavenger hunt for a random feat you were posting.
”Wanted” I have been defending him for a while now, and No it is not particularly my responsibility since you never tagged me but the other users. The scan is from Superman#14. That all i have to say, other reasons you’re bringing up aren’t good enough etc. Those are another forms of excuses in a long discussion but same result.
1) Not against me. And again, it’s a wall of text. I don’t have a perfect memory.
2) Yes, it is your responsibility. You came with claims to me about H’el was faster than Jean. You chose this position. Not me.
3) After how you have been acting towards me (who does not know you beyond this single conversation), I really stopped caring about your impressions of what I brought. Especially since your entire argument hinged on a single feat.
They are not excuses. They are me trying to level with you and you trying to avoid a debate. I don’t know why and it frankly doesn’t matter at this point.
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