@kisukez: lol kakashi would literally speedblitz the entire arrancar saga plus transcendent aizen/tybw.
Ok how is kakashi's abilities useless here? elemental powers like chidori will put a hole in byakuya and more. byakuya is a featless merchant without his zankpakuto's power, not that the shikai will even change anything too.
Yes better stats, he scales to KCM naruto who outstats Bleach till Transcendent aizen/TyBW.
lol kakashi would literally speedblitz the entire arrancar saga plus transcendent aizen/tybw.
Ok how is kakashi's abilities useless here? elemental powers like chidori will put a hole in byakuya and more.
He’s got some cool techniques like clones, but nothing that would actually let him hurt a captain. Kakashi would probably break his own hand if he tried using that on Byakuya, since the captain’s physical stats are way above the ninja attacks.
byakuya is a featless merchant without his zankpakuto's power, not that the shikai will even change anything too.
Okay, you’re just making it more and more obvious that you lack basic knowledge about Bleach, because that’s clearly a massive lie.
Byakuya had feats without his sword released in (almost) all of his fights.
Vs. Ichigo:
Vs. Renji:
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Vs. Ichigo [2] and Gin
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Vs. Zommari
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Now, obviously most of his feats happen with his sword released but that’s kind of the point, the character is supposed to use their powers. You’ll be shocked to learn this applies to every shinigami whose name isn’t Zaraki.
Byakuya was even injuring Yammy in the end. Now, while he did that using senbonzakura’s power, the bankai of regular characters like him obviously isn’t hundreds of times stronger than their standard strikes.
Yes better stats, he scales to KCM naruto who outstats Bleach till Transcendent aizen/TyBW.
Which KCM Naruto are we talking about here? lol
Actually, just tell me where you put this Kakashi strengthwise and speedwise.
By taking away Kakashi’s MS and Kamui you’ve taken his strongest ability, By taking away Byakuya’s Shikai and Bankai you’ve basically crippled his ability to fight effectively
Byakuya low-mid diffs at most. Even without his Shikai he still has the physical stats to snap Kakashi in two. He has a "magical type" zanpakutou and is one of those who doesn't get much physical boost with his releases. Versatility is also not going to be a problem, Byakuya is a Kido expert with 100+ attack and defensive Kido under his belt.
@kisukez: I mean bleach only reaches Kakashi's level speed late game though cause I know clearly HM byakuya is no where as fast as Kakashi.
what physicals does byakuya have that is above kakashi though lmao?
the first against ichigo he used his sword though
bruh he is using his sword in all those examples lmao.
The point of this post is NO sword nor MS/sharingan for Kakashi.
which is obvious that kakashi stomps.
Kakashi strength wise he scales Well above 5 year old itachi can smash a massive boulder many times his Size, Now i don't know how good Byakuya's hakuda and kido is but he is mostly a sword merchant.
As for his stats he can Fight a one-rinnegan obito who scales to KCM naruto, who dogwalks HM byakuya.
@kisukez: Chidori to the heart is all it takes, and this Kakashi has the speed and deceptiveness to pull it off against pre Royal Guard Byakuya, let alone when he doesn't have his Bankai.
I mean bleach only reaches Kakashi's level speed late game though cause I know clearly HM byakuya is no where as fast as Kakashi.
You already said that, what I want to know is how fast he is.
what physicals does byakuya have that is above kakashi though lmao?
the first against ichigo he used his sword though
bruh he is using his sword in all those examples lmao.
The point of this post is NO sword nor MS/sharingan for Kakashi.
which is obvious that kakashi stomps.
Holy...
You do know that a zanpakutou has 3 stages, right? Sealed, shikai and bankai.
You realize the op limited it to the sealed state only, and what you referred to was the zanpakutou's power that’s only accessible after release, right?
If you used Byakuya’s sealed sword, you wouldn't be able to replicate his feats because the power doesn't come from the sword, it comes from Kuchiki’s own striking strength.
So please bro, do a bit of research before commenting.
Kakashi strength wise he scales Well above 5 year old itachi can smash a massive boulder many times his Size, Now i don't know how good Byakuya's hakuda and kido is but he is mostly a sword merchant.
Bro...
As for his stats he can Fight a one-rinnegan obito who scales to KCM naruto, who dogwalks HM byakuya.
Scaling doesn't work unless you give me what I asked for. I need values. And the feats corresponding to those values
@trideca001: yes he does. Kakashi hasn't even shown jidanbo levels of stats let alone a captain
The extent of which Bleach Debaters will downplay the physical abilities of Naruto is incredible...
Jidanbō??? That's who you're downplaying Kakashi's strength to? Jidanbō who isn't even a ranked officer, Jidanbō who got stomped by a sub BoS Renji level Ichigo, Jidanbō whose best feat is holding up a big gate.
Jidanbō wouldn't even beat Base Kid Sasuke much less War Arc Kakashi
@pizzagod342: yes same jidanbo who could casually uproot dozens of meters of rock with a single swing. Sasuke somehow feat isn't remotely at that level. Got any feats for him on that level?
Also not once did I say jidanbo would beat kakashi. I said jidanbo has better physicals
@pizzagod342: because knocking out some featless bear doesn't suddenly equate to uprooting all that rock. Kakashi at the beginning of shippuden consider sakura strength monstrous and she didn't even perform jidanbo feat so kid sasuke is way below that
@theemperor95: A "featless bear" that's easily the size of a two story building lmao
Kakashi at the beginning of shippuden consider sakura strength monstrous and she didn't even perform jidanbo feat so kid sasuke is way below that
Well Uryu had even more respect for Jidanbō's strength then Kakashi had for Sakura's. So by your logic Jidanbō is comparable to Post Shrift Uryu who can beat up Royal Guards...
Obviously that's not the case, since characters get stronger over the course of a series, this is War Arc Kakashi, not Beginning of Shippuden
On top of that, every debater knows that the destructive capacity of a feat does not automatically equal it's AP,
@pizzagod342: does the bear have any durability feats? No? Didn't think so. Ergo featless
That reasoning is so fallacious it's ridiculous lmao I'm confused how you are even equating those much less thinking you actually did something by posting it. Regardless your example has quite literally 0 relevance to what I said. We're talking about kid sasuke feat against jidanbo. How royal guards or TYBW uryu gets involved in that is unknown to anyone here
And you were using a kid sasuke feat to compare...jidanbo feat is not only better but kakashi considered sakura feat monstrous making it better than sasuke feat too and even her punch was below jidanbo. Also not once did I say WA kakashi is the same as beginning of shippuden. Strawman much.
I'm not talking about AP. Kakashi doesn't have the physicals to compare to jidanbo let alone a captain like byakuya. You still haven't disproven that despite jumping into my comment on it. Bringing up some fodder sasuke feat doesn't address that in the slightest
@theemperor95: show me byakuya with jidanbo level strength or physicals first then cause i know byaks has none(the only physically strong chars in the verse can be counted).
OMG the mental diarrhea is outstanding. There should be a general rule that says never debate a verse you don't know, However, and/or if you do debate a verse you have inadequate knowledge on sit down and be lectured like a good boy instead of spouting the most outlandish nonsense
@trideca001: Byakuya's hakuda and kido is but he is mostly a sword merchant.
Byakuya seems to be one of the fewer captains with higher skill in kido, he has shown 80s kido and should scale to rukia, meaning erything below the 80s kido should something he can do.
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And rukias energy wave
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So its pretty much kido/hado and zanjutsu vs ninjutsu and kenjutsu, so its a skill based matchup i would say
Kakashi hides underground and leaves a lightning clone on the field, the clone will electrocute Byakuya and Kakashi will come out of the ground cutting the captain in half, zero difficulty.
Kakashi having better stats than byakuya has to be a new meme. Get him on chad level first. Hell get him past jidanbo first.
OT: byakuya should take it. Kamui snipe was the greatest threat and with it off the table I don't see what kakashi is gonna do to finish him off
This child lifting the rock was defeated by a gennin who in turn would be knocked out by a single blow from Kakashi.
Literally the gennin who defeated this guy lifting the rock even after getting older was made into a rag doll in the hand-to-hand fight by Kakuzu while Kakashi dueled with this same Kakuzu on equal terms.
Naruto, still 11 years old, was considered a weakling by his class of children, but he was able to run at Mach 5.
This same Naruto wasn't even fast enough to make Kakashi stop reading a romance book while facing him.
Don't be fooled by Kishimoto not liking to draw punches destroying rocks all the time, Kakashi physically isn't even on the same level as Byakuya, he's many steps above.
Lol lets all be serious here, neither jidanbo or fresh out of academy student naruto's stat matter to either kakashi or byakuya, fact is they all scale way above those characters. Jidanbo is will lose to most characters in the chuunin exam and fresh out of the academy naruto will lose to any seated officer like ikkaku in SS arc much less byakuya
@pizzagod342: does the bear have any durability feats? No? Didn't think so. Ergo featless
That reasoning is so fallacious it's ridiculous lmao I'm confused how you are even equating those much less thinking you actually did something by posting it. Regardless your example has quite literally 0 relevance to what I said. We're talking about kid sasuke feat against jidanbo. How royal guards or TYBW uryu gets involved in that is unknown to anyone here
And you were using a kid sasuke feat to compare...jidanbo feat is not only better but kakashi considered sakura feat monstrous making it better than sasuke feat too and even her punch was below jidanbo. Also not once did I say WA kakashi is the same as beginning of shippuden. Strawman much.
I'm not talking about AP. Kakashi doesn't have the physicals to compare to jidanbo let alone a captain like byakuya. You still haven't disproven that despite jumping into my comment on it. Bringing up some fodder sasuke feat doesn't address that in the slightest
You speak as if there were some kind of physical requirement to be considered a high-ranking shinigami, but you forget that Matsumoto, who is literally a high-ranking lieutenant, was not able to lift even 100 kg from the ground.
Unlike ninjas who have a list of requirements to move up to the next rank, shinigamis apparently don't have this, even a character who can't even lift 100kg is already qualified to be a lieutenant.
@kisukez: Kakashi doesn't have to wrestle Byakuya, he only needs to sneak behind him and stab him in the heart/head with a Raikiri. Speed-wise war-arc Kakashi scales to the likes of Rinnegan Obito, KCM Naruto, base Guy and Killer B, who are atp vastly faster than most Hueco Mundo arc captains.
I would have to read more into this Kakashi scaling before I can assess if his physicals will be enough for Byakuya. For now, I don't think he compares.
@kisukez: Kakashi doesn't have to wrestle Byakuya, he only needs to sneak behind him and stab him in the heart/head with a Raikiri. Speed-wise war-arc Kakashi scales to the likes of Rinnegan Obito, KCM Naruto, base Guy and Killer B, who are atp vastly faster than most Hueco Mundo arc captains.
I would have to read more into this Kakashi scaling before I can assess if his physicals will be enough for Byakuya. For now, I don't think he compares.
@kisukez: Kakashi doesn't have to wrestle Byakuya, he only needs to sneak behind him and stab him in the heart/head with a Raikiri. Speed-wise war-arc Kakashi scales to the likes of Rinnegan Obito, KCM Naruto, base Guy and Killer B, who are atp vastly faster than most Hueco Mundo arc captains.
I would have to read more into this Kakashi scaling before I can assess if his physicals will be enough for Byakuya. For now, I don't think he compares.
I'm gonna pass the questions I asked Trideca to you: what feats put him that far above the HM cast? And where do you place him speedwise?
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