Comparing the Physical Strength of Naruto Verse to other Rival Shonen Verses

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Rolt

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Abstract

This thread intends to make a comparison of average physical strength between Naruto characters to that of rival Shonen verses, such as One Piece, Fairy Tail, Bleach etc. I aim to focus on OP & FT as they're most often compared to Naruto power-wise. Now as I'm comparing average levels here, I will be excluding God tier characters from this comparison on both sides, that is Jubi/6 Paths from the Naruto-side and God tiers of the compared Shonen verses (Admiral/Yonko for OP, Dragon Gods for FT etc.).

Introduction

I see Comicvine debaters focus too much on certain aspects of abilities, like hax ability or other sort. But they always forget the crux of a fight, which is hand-to-hand combat. And what decides the victory of hand-to-hand combat is the character with superior physical strength. As a result, I decided to create this thread to discuss it.

Methodology

When talking about physical strength, we generally have two areas: Lifting and Striking. The first point of comparison is comparing the protagonists themselves for starts before diving into secondary characters.

Let's look at Naruto's base lifting strength for starters. During his Sage Mode training in the Pain Arc, we see that Naruto at Base Level cannot budge let alone lift a statue:

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Let's repeat that again: He could not budge it. He could not even move its weight with his Base Stats. He only does lift it after using Sage Mode. This statue would weigh anywhere between 100 to 500 ton maximum. We later see him toss Pain's Rhino summon after fully mastering Sage Mode.

So, what does this mean? It means Base Naruto is not even a 100 tonner lifter. He only becomes so after using Sage Mode. What is interesting about this is that, this was after learning Rasenshuriken and defeating Kakuzu. At this point in the series, Base Naruto is a full fledged Kage caliber power-wise confirmed by Kakashi himself. I should mention Kakashi himself can't lift a boulder either.

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Which means the vast majority of Kages do not have the physical strength to budge 100 tons, as we saw with Base Naruto.

So, how does that hold up to other Shonen protagonists? Not very good to say the least.

For example: Natsu, as early as Edolas Arc without any Magic Power and incredibly exhausted at that, was already a 1000 tonner in lifting strength:

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We have Luffy from Skypea Arc casually tossing around a gold ball weighing hundreds of tons, and this was before Gear 2.

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I couldn't find lifting strength feats for Meliodas and Ichigo, so I'll ignore them for now.

Both Natsu and Luffy were low tiers in their respective verses at that point in time when the feats took place.

  • Natsu was not qualified to be S-Class Mage and couldn't even participate in the Grand Magic Games arc, due to how weak he was.
  • Luffy was weaker than even CP9.

What I mean to say is Base Natsu and Base Luffy at their absolute weakest forms were already easily 100 tonners in lifting, and Naruto doesn't reach their strength until he obtains Sage Mode. Beginning of Series Base Natsu and Base Luffy are physically much stronger than most Kages as well. Let that sink in. While I focused on Natsu and Luffy, you can make similar arguments for Merliodas, Ichigo and other Shonen MCs too.

But disregarding the protagonists, we see similar disparities between secondary characters. Tsunade's feat of lifting Gamabunta's blade and smashing it onto Manda certainly is a 100 tonner feat without a doubt.

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But it pales in comparison to the following:

Hades lifting Giant Makarov (who weighs 1.2 million tons) and throwing him around.

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As well as Jozu throwing a giant-dwarfing iceberg:

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What's crazy about this is Tsunade is physically the strongest Kage barring Naruto in physical strength, whereas Hades and Jozu are pretty average in their respective verses, yet they're well beyond the absolute strongest of Naruto.

But this is lifting strength, what about striking strength? We see even bigger disparities too.

Sakura's infamous ground-punch in the War Arc:

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Sakura is obviously not your typical representation of physical strength in the Naruto verse. She's physically well beyond almost all Kages in brute strength and this is consistently demonstrated.

This means that, aside from Sakura, Tsunade, Gated Gai and Naruto (with Kurama's power), nobody has the physical strength to crater the ground like this with their bare hand. They might do so through Ninjutsu techniques, but we're talking about pure brute muscle strength here.

But compare the destruction impact of Sakura's punch to these following characters:

The Celestial Spirit King from Fairy Tail and what his blade swing did to the ground:

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Dressrosa Zoro from One Piece and what his blade swing did to Pica's Golem:

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Galan and what his staff swing did to the ground:

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All of these characters are not physically top tiers in their respective series, unlike Sakura whose strength is basically considered god-like in Naruto, yet their physical feats outright dwarfs that of Sakura many times over. We have established that a punch from Sakura or Tsunade is enough to kill most Kages, if it lands on their bodies. Ponder that for a minute.

Conclusion

Based on the evidence I collected, I can make the educated conclusion that most Naruto characters can't survive a fight with most cast of FT, OP, NNT, Bleach etc. due to the huge gap in strength. The body of a Naruto character (who is not amped by Kurama or Jubi's power) would instantly get turned into red mush if punched by the cast of these verses.

What do you think?

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The_Hajduk

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I am not a Naruto expert but the feat where he throws the giant rhino is enough to give him the strength edge imo.

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Aristeaus

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@rolt said:

What do you think?

I think its a good post but man are you gonna get attacked left and right for this. lol

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dogsrus

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#4  Edited By dogsrus

depends if it's onepiece naruto should be higher if it's bleach naruto should be lower and you have several thing's wrong in this thread sakura's physicals are not higher than that of a kage's unless you are talking about ohnoki every other kage except mei has higher physicals that being gara tsunade and raikage who all fought and broke / damaged a susanoo something out of sakura's league and tsunade is still stronger than her even in base so most of this is plain untrue and naruto not lifting the stone statue is inconsistent due to being able to oneshot a large building sized snake with ease kisame surviving hirudora etc

fairytail shouldn't be higher they are consistently reliant on magic and without it as shown in edolas they have normal physicals stats for comparison lee can't use chakra or ninja magic he oneshotted half a mountain sized meteor a chakra less naruto that couldn't breath oneshotted a meteor etc

naruto if you are weaker than someone you can't hurt them for the most part shown the orochimaru's kusanagi naruto without protection falling into sharp rocks naruto tanking lava naruto tanking a chidori to the face etc

reasoning whitebeard was taken down by cannon bullets and sword from people much weaker than him

some one like kenpachi could literally tank ichigo's shikai no diff and Ichigo wasn't too far of from I'm in strength him being low captain level at the time after defeating renji

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Rolt

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I am not a Naruto expert but the feat where he throws the giant rhino is enough to give him the strength edge imo.

The weight of the rhino is calculated between 161 to 212 tons. Reference: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Neosonic97/Class_K_Sage_Mode_Naruto_feat:_Hurling_the_Rhino

It doesn't really compare with the feats I listed in the OP, which I'd encourage to read properly.

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The_Hajduk

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@rolt: He did throw it really far and really easily.

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dogsrus

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@the_hajduk: wouldn't nnaruto throwing around kurama be an impressive feats seeing as kurama is small mountain sized

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GavLa

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You are wrong, strength is not equivalent to your attack power or fighting ability, the premise of your thread is wrong.

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Gorilla_D_Ruffy

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You are wrong, strength is equivalent to your attack power and fighting ability, the premise of his thread is correct.

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dogsrus

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@gorilla_d_ruffy: yes ap= dura tho if you can destroy building with jutsu you must have building level dura so /thread

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Edgelord91

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@dogsrus: nope he only tossed 50% kurama who's only about 70 ft tall. That's TINY compared to oars who Luffy literally ragdolled

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Edgelord91

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dogsrus

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@edgelord91: no half kurama is 300 feet tall roughly full kurama is mountain plus size and eos kurama with ninetails sixpaths sagemode is multimountain in size

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Edgelord91

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@dogsrus said:

depends if it's onepiece naruto should be higher if it's bleach naruto should be lower and you have several thing's wrong in this thread sakura's physicals are not higher than that of a kage's unless you are talking about ohnoki every other kage except mei has higher physicals that being gara tsunade and raikage who all fought and broke / damaged a susanoo

Only Tsunade and Ay did so physically and the latter had to be amped.

something out of sakura's league and tsunade is still stronger than her even in base

Nope. Sakura is confirmed as strong as Tsunade

so most of this is plain untrue and naruto not lifting the stone statue is inconsistent due to being able to oneshot a large building sized snake with ease

While amped and kyuubi chakra and he didn't lift it.

kisame surviving hirudora etc

Kisame is directly stated to have over 3x as much chakra as base Naruto and guy's follow up punch Knocked him out.

fairytail shouldn't be higher they are consistently reliant on magic and without it as shown in edolas they have normal physicals

True but that's environmental not actual battle stats.

stats for comparison lee can't use chakra or ninja magic he oneshotted half a mountain sized meteor

Lee can't use ninjutsu or genjutsu. He can and does utilize basic chakra manipulation such as water walking, tree walking and the gates. His best pure strength feat is just moving around in his weights.

a chakra less naruto that couldn't breath oneshotted a meteor etc

When was this!?

naruto if you are weaker than someone you can't hurt them

Thats only if the Gap is massive. Sakura could hurt Naruto in part 1 and it's directly stated by Sasuke she's the weakest.

for the most part shown the orochimaru's kusanagi naruto without protection

Chakra cloak

falling into sharp rocks naruto

Sage mode toughness

tanking lava naruto tanking a chidori to the face etc

Chakra cloak

reasoning whitebeard was taken down by cannon bullets and sword from people much weaker than him

  1. Those didn't take him down
  2. He was old and sick
  3. Several of those characters were high tiers who can use haki (it's confirmed all vice admirals have haki)

some one like kenpachi could literally tank ichigo's shikai no diff and Ichigo wasn't too far of from I'm in strength him being low captain level at the time after defeating renji

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Edgelord91

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#15  Edited By Edgelord91

@dogsrus: half kurama is relative to gamabunta who is officially under 70 and you yourself put at 100 ft.

Yes full kurama is mountain sized but Naruto never tossed him

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dogsrus

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@dogsrus: half kurama is relative to gamabunta who is officially under 70 and you yourself put under 100 ft.

no gamabunta is 94 feet roughly and is smaller than nerfed shukaku full shukaku is half the size of half ninetails

Yes full kurama is mountain sized but Naruto never tossed him

naruto did toss him half of him at least who should be small mountain to large hill size

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cergic

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The infamous "mountains in the background on specific pages"-scaling strikes again.

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Azureus

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You cannot say Base Naruto (and other Kage) are not 100 tonners, when Base Jirobo in Part 1 was already a 1000 tonner, and Sakura's strength is not considered "godlike" by anyone.

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Edgelord91

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@dogsrus: half kurama is relative to gamabunta who is officially under 70 and you yourself put under 100 ft.

no gamabunta is 94 feet roughly and is smaller than nerfed shukaku full shukaku is half the size of half ninetails

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No there the same size where'd you get that from?

Yes full kurama is mountain sized but Naruto never tossed him

naruto did toss him half of him at least who should be small mountain to large hill size

Half is equal to gamabunta who you just admitted isn't even 100ft. Still tony compared to oars.

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dogsrus

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@dogsrus said:

depends if it's onepiece naruto should be higher if it's bleach naruto should be lower and you have several thing's wrong in this thread sakura's physicals are not higher than that of a kage's unless you are talking about ohnoki every other kage except mei has higher physicals that being gara tsunade and raikage who all fought and broke / damaged a susanoo

Only Tsunade and Ay did so physically and the latter had to be amped.

gara wasn't amped his sand was just faster and gara against lee shown he has higher stats than said sand

something out of sakura's league and tsunade is still stronger than her even in base

Nope. Sakura is confirmed as strong as Tsunade no she is confirmed on par with a weakened tsunade after being bisected and almost dying

so most of this is plain untrue and naruto not lifting the stone statue is inconsistent due to being able to oneshot a large building sized snake with ease

While amped and kyuubi chakra and he didn't lift it.

kyubi chakra mode with out cloak isn't even a 10x amp it's less than a 5x amp

kisame surviving hirudora etc

Kisame is directly stated to have over 3x as much chakra as base Naruto and guy's follow up punch Knocked him out.

yes guy's physicals>>>>>>> large island level attack

fairytail shouldn't be higher they are consistently reliant on magic and without it as shown in edolas they have normal physicals

True but that's environmental not actual battle stats.

no if they didn't or couldn't use magic to amp themselves they would have normal stats

stats for comparison lee can't use chakra or ninja magic he oneshotted half a mountain sized meteor

Lee can't use ninjutsu or genjutsu. He can and does utilize basic chakra manipulation such as water walking, tree walking and the gates. His best pure strength feat is just moving around in his weights.

he can't amp himself with chakra though so all of them count the gate is just removing mental limiters set by your body

a chakra less naruto that couldn't breath oneshotted a meteor etc

When was this!? one of the novels

naruto if you are weaker than someone you can't hurt them

Thats only if the Gap is massive. Sakura could hurt Naruto in part 1 and it's directly stated by Sasuke she's the weakest.

sakura couldn't hurt naruto it was for gag's when ever they did anything sakura quite literally wouldn't get involved because she was too weak to matter

for the most part shown the orochimaru's kusanagi naruto without protection

Chakra cloak doesn't matter tho

falling into sharp rocks naruto

Sage mode toughness sage mode is just a 10x amp in dura

tanking lava naruto tanking a chidori to the face etc

Chakra cloak

doesn't matter tho you have to scale to chakra to use it or 8th gates wouldn't exist

reasoning whitebeard was taken down by cannon bullets and sword from people much weaker than him

  1. Those didn't take him down
  2. He was old and sick
  3. Several of those characters were high tiers who can use haki (it's confirmed all vice admirals have haki)
  4. no several of them were captains captains are fodder to even the likes of doffy so this is plainly untrue

some one like kenpachi could literally tank ichigo's shikai no diff and Ichigo wasn't too far of from I'm in strength him being low captain level at the time after defeating renji

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Edgelord91

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@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

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dogsrus

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@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

they aren't this is a huge lie they had to jump low ranking joining and barely won even though it was a 4v2

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

because that's where they excell at the most but kakashi is massively stronger than jirobo physically

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dogsrus

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@dogsrus: half kurama is relative to gamabunta who is officially under 70 and you yourself put under 100 ft.

no gamabunta is 94 feet roughly and is smaller than nerfed shukaku full shukaku is half the size of half ninetails

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No there the same size where'd you get that from?

sure

Yes full kurama is mountain sized but Naruto never tossed him

naruto did toss him half of him at least who should be small mountain to large hill size

Half is equal to gamabunta who you just admitted isn't even 100ft. Still tony compared to oars.

no wrong gamabunta= nerfed shukaku who was tiny compared to war arc shukaku unless you believe gamabunta is as strong as a tailed beast which he isn't even close

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Edgelord91

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#24  Edited By Edgelord91

@dogsrus: Still not a strength feat for Gaara and no his sand is explicitly More powerful than his actual body.

Nope she's literally stated to be as strong as Tsunade after achieving her seal if not stronger. Remember Karin had healed Tsunade before this and both Sakura and shizune have seen Tsunade's true strength.

The cloak matched a level 2 curse mark Sasuke which is a confirmed 10x amp so 5x sounds about right. The point though is BASE Naruto being under 100 tons is consistent.

It was guy's physicals that CREATED THE ISLAND LEVEL ATTACK remember?

I'm saying the magic depends on their environment so for VS battles it's not a counter argument.

It's not a gag Sakura can consistently harm other genin such as ino. It's just more evidence that it needs to be a large strength gap or high level defense to no sell which is consistent.

Yeah the cloak is an extremely strong layer of defense.

Safe mode is a high level amp which Rolt addressed in the opener.

No you don't. The entire point of gates 4-8 is your pushing your body beyond what it can naturally withstand. That's the exception though for most instances your correct.

Fodders to him yes but the point is their not weak and he was heavily nerfed not a good argument. And again several were vice admirals who are confirmed haki users.

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Edgelord91

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:
@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@dogsrus: half kurama is relative to gamabunta who is officially under 70 and you yourself put under 100 ft.

no gamabunta is 94 feet roughly and is smaller than nerfed shukaku full shukaku is half the size of half ninetails

No Caption Provided
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No there the same size where'd you get that from?

sure

Yes full kurama is mountain sized but Naruto never tossed him

naruto did toss him half of him at least who should be small mountain to large hill size

Half is equal to gamabunta who you just admitted isn't even 100ft. Still tony compared to oars.

no wrong gamabunta= nerfed shukaku who was tiny compared to war arc shukaku unless you believe gamabunta is as strong as a tailed beast which he isn't even close

They are literally the same size and you can clearly see that. Case closed.

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dogsrus

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@edgelord91: war arc and pre timeskip shukaku are not the same size

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Azureus

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@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

Shippuden Naruto cannot be weaker than his KN0 counterpart in Part 1, who would scale to Base Jirobo. The fact that Jirobo and Choji are listed in the same level, let alone including Tsunade should tell you all you need to know here.

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Edgelord91

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

they aren't this is a huge lie they had to jump low ranking joining and barely won even though it was a 4v2

Yeah because brute strength isn't the only factor in a fight hence why jiraya and orochimaru can take her.

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

because that's where they excell at the most but kakashi is massively stronger than jirobo physically

Kakashi has zero feats suggesting this and scaling to Naruto firmly debunks this

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Edgelord91

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#29  Edited By Edgelord91

@dogsrus said:

@edgelord91: war arc and pre timeskip shukaku are not the same size

Yeah they are. Pre timeskip is just weaker

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dogsrus

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

they aren't this is a huge lie they had to jump low ranking joining and barely won even though it was a 4v2

Yeah because brute strength isn't the only factor in a fight hence why jiraya and orochimaru can take her.

they are physically on par with her they just don't have as high striking strength

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

because that's where they excell at the most but kakashi is massively stronger than jirobo physically

Kakashi has zero feats suggesting this and scaling to Naruto firmly debunks this

every single feat shows this his fight with zabuza show's this kakuzu manhandles post timeskip choji and same kakuzu that has to rely on jutsu to even hang with a weakened kakashi

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Edgelord91

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@azureus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

Shippuden Naruto cannot be weaker than his KN0 counterpart in Part 1,

Yeah he can. Kurama literally has dozens of times more chakra than Naruto does. A small portion easily justifies that.

who would scale to Base Jirobo.

Supported by nothing and shikmaru flat out stated base choji is physically stronger than base Naruto

The fact that Jirobo and Choji are listed in the same level, let alone including Tsunade should tell you all you need to know here.

Meaning their both s tier above the other characters not equal.

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dogsrus

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@edgelord91: chakra quantity also goes into play when considering tailed beast size that's why half ninetails is smaller than full ninetails

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Edgelord91

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@dogsrus said:

@edgelord91: chakra quantity also goes into play when considering tailed beast size that's why half ninetails is smaller than full ninetails

this is true. Which is why this doesn't make shukaku smaller.

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Edgelord91

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#34  Edited By Edgelord91

@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:
@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

they aren't this is a huge lie they had to jump low ranking joining and barely won even though it was a 4v2

Yeah because brute strength isn't the only factor in a fight hence why jiraya and orochimaru can take her.

they are physically on par with her they just don't have as high striking strength

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

because that's where they excell at the most but kakashi is massively stronger than jirobo physically

Kakashi has zero feats suggesting this and scaling to Naruto firmly debunks this

every single feat shows this his fight with zabuza show's this kakuzu manhandles post timeskip choji and same kakuzu that has to rely on jutsu to even hang with a weakened kakashi

no they aren't. Both admit as such.

He relied on his diamond defense against choji

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dogsrus

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@dogsrus: Still not a strength feat for Gaara and no his sand is explicitly More powerful than his actual body.

nope he was tanking hit's that were breaking through his sand from gated lee

Nope she's literally stated to be as strong as Tsunade after achieving her seal if not stronger. Remember Karin had healed Tsunade before this and both Sakura and shizune have seen Tsunade's true strength.

tsunade always collect chakra to maintain her strength and age she had used up all that chakra in her fight against madara she wasn't at full power

The cloak matched a level 2 curse mark Sasuke which is a confirmed 10x amp so 5x sounds about right. The point though is BASE Naruto being under 100 tons is consistent.

it isn't their is several feats like him breaking through haku's mirror's his final clash between neji way more than that

It was guy's physicals that CREATED THE ISLAND LEVEL ATTACK remember?

yes but the island level attack didn't take him out guy's punch did

I'm saying the magic depends on their environment so for VS battles it's not a counter argument.

if natsu stopped amping himself with magic he would be human level in dura which is my point

It's not a gag Sakura can consistently harm other genin such as ino. It's just more evidence that it needs to be a large strength gap or high level defense to no sell which is consistent.

no their fight with ino shows that it is gag ino is the weakest genin we see physically she relies heavily on her mind replacement jutsu

Yeah the cloak is an extremely strong layer of defense.

they have to scale to

Safe mode is a high level amp which Rolt addressed in the opener.

it is a 10x amp naruto's least powerful amp

No you don't. The entire point of gates 4-8 is your pushing your body beyond what it can naturally withstand. That's the exception though for most instances your correct.

no it's letting your body use its own power but your body can not normally with stand it with out side effect only the eight gates is fatal

Fodders to him yes but the point is their not weak and he was heavily nerfed not a good argument. And again several were vice admirals who are confirmed haki users.

captains were getting taken in the first arc of one-piece so they are fodder in general vice admirals arent even dofflamingo level

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@edgelord91: it does gamabunta states if shukaku keep's on regaining his former strength he won't be able to fight him so they had to end the fight quickly

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:
@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@azureus: jirobo, choji, and Tsunade are explicitly top tiers physically in universe and via rankings.

they aren't this is a huge lie they had to jump low ranking joining and barely won even though it was a 4v2

Yeah because brute strength isn't the only factor in a fight hence why jiraya and orochimaru can take her.

they are physically on par with her they just don't have as high striking strength

Jirobo and Tsunade are both listed at 5/5 strength wise compared to Naruto and kakashi's 3 I think

because that's where they excell at the most but kakashi is massively stronger than jirobo physically

Kakashi has zero feats suggesting this and scaling to Naruto firmly debunks this

every single feat shows this his fight with zabuza show's this kakuzu manhandles post timeskip choji and same kakuzu that has to rely on jutsu to even hang with a weakened kakashi

no they aren't. Both admit as such.

He relied on his diamond defense against choji

no that was only for choji's sneak attack he literally oneshot choji and almost chocked him to death if it wasn't for shikamaru

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@dogsrus said:

@edgelord91: it does gamabunta states if shukaku keep's on regaining his former strength he won't be able to fight him so they had to end the fight quickly

Yeah. Shukaku had his full power but was just getting unrestricted Access to it unlike kurama who was literally cut in half hence why he visibly changed size and the others didn't.

We even have gamabunta compared to full kurama so we know for a fact shukaku didn't change size

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@edgelord91:

Yeah he can. Kurama literally has dozens of times more chakra than Naruto does. A small portion easily justifies that.

In what world is Akatsuki Suppression Mission Naruto weaker than KN0 Naruto from Part 1?

Supported by nothing and shikmaru flat out stated base choji is physically stronger than base Naruto

This literally has nothing to do with anything.

Meaning their both s tier above the other characters not equal.

This makes no damn sense. Jirobo, Choji and Tsunade are not anywhere near the same ballpark. You would have to twist yourself into a pretzel to assert that these three at top tiers and that these rankings make sense. In your mind, is Hiruzen slower than Part 1 Genin now cuz that's what the Databook stats say?

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@dogsrus said:

@edgelord91: it does gamabunta states if shukaku keep's on regaining his former strength he won't be able to fight him so they had to end the fight quickly

Yeah. Shukaku had his full power but was just getting unrestricted Access to it unlike kurama who was literally cut in half hence why he visibly changed size and the others didn't.

no he was still partially sealed tailed beast are made of chakra missing chakra makes tailed beast smaller

We even have gamabunta compared to full kurama so we know for a fact shukaku didn't change size he was compared to full kurama

he was at best half his size and an inconsistency

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#41  Edited By Edgelord91

@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@dogsrus: Still not a strength feat for Gaara and no his sand is explicitly More powerful than his actual body.

nope he was tanking hit's that were breaking through his sand from gated lee

No Caption Provided

Because of his secondary sand shell remember? And he substituted away from the finishing blow. His physicals aren't even on par with base Lee.

Nope she's literally stated to be as strong as Tsunade after achieving her seal if not stronger. Remember Karin had healed Tsunade before this and both Sakura and shizune have seen Tsunade's true strength.

tsunade always collect chakra to maintain her strength and age she had used up all that chakra in her fight against madara she wasn't at full power

And? Sakura and shizune have seen her power BEFORE fighting pain and Madara.

The cloak matched a level 2 curse mark Sasuke which is a confirmed 10x amp so 5x sounds about right. The point though is BASE Naruto being under 100 tons is consistent.

it isn't their is several feats like him breaking through haku's mirror's his final clash between neji way more than that

Both of these were Kyuubi amped. No contradicton.

It was guy's physicals that CREATED THE ISLAND LEVEL ATTACK remember?

yes but the island level attack didn't take him out guy's punch did

Yeah guy's DIRECT HIT finished what his air pressure couldn't. Again no contradiction.

I'm saying the magic depends on their environment so for VS battles it's not a counter argument.

if natsu stopped amping himself with magic he would be human level in dura which is my point

Thats not how it works. It's passive depending on the environment.

It's not a gag Sakura can consistently harm other genin such as ino. It's just more evidence that it needs to be a large strength gap or high level defense to no sell which is consistent.

no their fight with ino shows that it is gag ino is the weakest genin we see physically she relies heavily on her mind replacement jutsu

NOT A GAG. And yeah ino sucks but it's still consistent.

Yeah the cloak is an extremely strong layer of defense.

they have to scale to

Yeah and that's an AMPED NARUTO.

Safe mode is a high level amp which Rolt addressed in the opener.

it is a 10x amp naruto's least powerful amp

No it's more powerful than his pre KCM forms.

No you don't. The entire point of gates 4-8 is your pushing your body beyond what it can naturally withstand. That's the exception though for most instances your correct.

no it's letting your body use its own power but your body can not normally with stand it with out side effect only the eight gates is fatal

Thats the first 2 gates.

Fodders to him yes but the point is their not weak and he was heavily nerfed not a good argument. And again several were vice admirals who are confirmed haki users.

captains were getting taken in the first arc of one-piece so they are fodder in general

Relative to white beard yes. It's not coincidence they all relied on piercing. Even Morgan was cutting railing with Air pressure.

vice admirals arent even dofflamingo level

And? Their still well above the likes of pre time skip Luffy which is far above most Naruto characters. Virgo is one of doffy's top men and he has the edge against Sanji and smoker.

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:
@dogsrus said:

@edgelord91: it does gamabunta states if shukaku keep's on regaining his former strength he won't be able to fight him so they had to end the fight quickly

Yeah. Shukaku had his full power but was just getting unrestricted Access to it unlike kurama who was literally cut in half hence why he visibly changed size and the others didn't.

no he was still partially sealed tailed beast are made of chakra missing chakra makes tailed beast smaller

Yeah MISSING chakra. Not suppressed we know for a fact he didn't change size.

We even have gamabunta compared to full kurama so we know for a fact shukaku didn't change size he was compared to full kurama

he was at best half his size and an inconsistency

Except it's not as the other biju are completely unsealed and shown to be the exact same size.

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@dogsrus: Still not a strength feat for Gaara and no his sand is explicitly More powerful than his actual body.

nope

nope he was tanking hit's that were breaking through his sand from gated lee

No Caption Provided

Because of his secondary sand shell remember? And he substituted away from the finishing blow. His physicals aren't even on par with base Lee.

base lee destroyed his sand armour and he tanked several hits from gated lee

lee's lotus is also above his own physicals that's why he can only do it once

Nope she's literally stated to be as strong as Tsunade after achieving her seal if not stronger. Remember Karin had healed Tsunade before this and both Sakura and shizune have seen Tsunade's true strength.

tsunade always collect chakra to maintain her strength and age she had used up all that chakra in her fight against madara she wasn't at full power

And? Sakura and shizune have seen her power BEFORE fighting pain and Madara.

The cloak matched a level 2 curse mark Sasuke which is a confirmed 10x amp so 5x sounds about right. The point though is BASE Naruto being under 100 tons is consistent.

it isn't their is several feats like him breaking through haku's mirror's his final clash between neji way more than that

Both of these were Kyuubi amped. No contradicton.

their is kyubi amped naruto vs haku is weaker than the kyubi amp he had against neji naruto by the end of timeskip is equal to neji in base meaning 100 tonner easily

It was guy's physicals that CREATED THE ISLAND LEVEL ATTACK remember?

yes but the island level attack didn't take him out guy's punch did

Yeah guy's DIRECT HIT finished what his air pressure couldn't. Again no contradiction.

the airpressure was already large island punch is higher than that

I'm saying the magic depends on their environment so for VS battles it's not a counter argument.

if natsu stopped amping himself with magic he would be human level in dura which is my point

Thats not how it works. It's passive depending on the environment.

sure

It's not a gag Sakura can consistently harm other genin such as ino. It's just more evidence that it needs to be a large strength gap or high level defense to no sell which is consistent.

no their fight with ino shows that it is gag ino is the weakest genin we see physically she relies heavily on her mind replacement jutsu

NOT A GAG. And yeah ino sucks but it's still consistent.

it isn't ino is so much weaker than any character that she couldn't fight them and she tied with sakura in an upset no less everyone expected ino to win

Yeah the cloak is an extremely strong layer of defense.

they have to scale to

Yeah and that's an AMPED NARUTO.

he has to scale to his own amps or his body will be destroyed

Safe mode is a high level amp which Rolt addressed in the opener.

it is a 10x amp naruto's least powerful amp

No it's more powerful than his pre KCM forms.

you stated other wise before and naruto straight out states kcm is stronger than sage mode

No you don't. The entire point of gates 4-8 is your pushing your body beyond what it can naturally withstand. That's the exception though for most instances your correct.

no it's letting your body use its own power but your body can not normally with stand it with out side effect only the eight gates is fatal

Thats the first 2 gates.

actually all the gates in fact the 4th gate is for healing

Fodders to him yes but the point is their not weak and he was heavily nerfed not a good argument. And again several were vice admirals who are confirmed haki users.

captains were getting taken in the first arc of one-piece so they are fodder in general

Relative to white beard yes. It's not coincidence they all relied on piercing. Even Morgan was cutting railing with Air pressure.

yes piercing attacks from the equivalent of a literally ant

vice admirals arent even dofflamingo level

And? Their still well above the likes of pre time skip Luffy which is far above most Naruto characters. Virgo is one of doffy's top men and he has the edge against Sanji and smoker.

pre timeskip luffy wouldn't even break high end jounin let alone most naruto chars

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#44  Edited By Edgelord91

@azureus: Top tiers physically compared to the rest of the cast at the time.

And weren't hiruzens retconned later?

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#45  Edited By Edgelord91

@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:
@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@dogsrus: Still not a strength feat for Gaara and no his sand is explicitly More powerful than his actual body.

nope

nope he was tanking hit's that were breaking through his sand from gated lee

No Caption Provided

Because of his secondary sand shell remember? And he substituted away from the finishing blow. His physicals aren't even on par with base Lee.

base lee destroyed his sand armour and he tanked several hits from gated lee

lee's lotus is also above his own physicals that's why he can only do it once

Nope she's literally stated to be as strong as Tsunade after achieving her seal if not stronger. Remember Karin had healed Tsunade before this and both Sakura and shizune have seen Tsunade's true strength.

tsunade always collect chakra to maintain her strength and age she had used up all that chakra in her fight against madara she wasn't at full power

And? Sakura and shizune have seen her power BEFORE fighting pain and Madara.

The cloak matched a level 2 curse mark Sasuke which is a confirmed 10x amp so 5x sounds about right. The point though is BASE Naruto being under 100 tons is consistent.

it isn't their is several feats like him breaking through haku's mirror's his final clash between neji way more than that

Both of these were Kyuubi amped. No contradicton.

their is kyubi amped naruto vs haku is weaker than the kyubi amp he had against neji naruto by the end of timeskip is equal to neji in base meaning 100 tonner easily

It was guy's physicals that CREATED THE ISLAND LEVEL ATTACK remember?

yes but the island level attack didn't take him out guy's punch did

Yeah guy's DIRECT HIT finished what his air pressure couldn't. Again no contradiction.

the airpressure was already large island punch is higher than that

I'm saying the magic depends on their environment so for VS battles it's not a counter argument.

if natsu stopped amping himself with magic he would be human level in dura which is my point

Thats not how it works. It's passive depending on the environment.

sure

It's not a gag Sakura can consistently harm other genin such as ino. It's just more evidence that it needs to be a large strength gap or high level defense to no sell which is consistent.

no their fight with ino shows that it is gag ino is the weakest genin we see physically she relies heavily on her mind replacement jutsu

NOT A GAG. And yeah ino sucks but it's still consistent.

it isn't ino is so much weaker than any character that she couldn't fight them and she tied with sakura in an upset no less everyone expected ino to win

Yeah the cloak is an extremely strong layer of defense.

they have to scale to

Yeah and that's an AMPED NARUTO.

he has to scale to his own amps or his body will be destroyed

Safe mode is a high level amp which Rolt addressed in the opener.

it is a 10x amp naruto's least powerful amp

No it's more powerful than his pre KCM forms.

you stated other wise before and naruto straight out states kcm is stronger than sage mode

No you don't. The entire point of gates 4-8 is your pushing your body beyond what it can naturally withstand. That's the exception though for most instances your correct.

no it's letting your body use its own power but your body can not normally with stand it with out side effect only the eight gates is fatal

Thats the first 2 gates.

actually all the gates in fact the 4th gate is for healing

Fodders to him yes but the point is their not weak and he was heavily nerfed not a good argument. And again several were vice admirals who are confirmed haki users.

captains were getting taken in the first arc of one-piece so they are fodder in general

Relative to white beard yes. It's not coincidence they all relied on piercing. Even Morgan was cutting railing with Air pressure.

yes piercing attacks from the equivalent of a literally ant

vice admirals arent even dofflamingo level

And? Their still well above the likes of pre time skip Luffy which is far above most Naruto characters. Virgo is one of doffy's top men and he has the edge against Sanji and smoker.

pre timeskip luffy wouldn't even break high end jounin let alone most naruto chars

No he wasn't. It's literally stated his sand armor was keeping him in the fight. And again he never even contested BASE lee physically ergo no scaling.

Lee amps his physicals to perform the lotus true but it doesn't change the fact Gaara doesn't compare.

And Naruto being relative to neji proves what exactly? Neji isn't a hundred tonner either.

Not if the amp explicitly comes with increased durability which why the gates have recoil damage but sage mode doesn't.

No I didn't but yes KCM>sage mode.

Piercing against significantly stronger opponents is always an option. Even Spiderman gets hurt by ordinary bullets even though he explicitly hits like a mortar shell. Same applies to Naruto for the most part.

By feats and scaling base Luffy pre time skip clears most of Naruto in brute strength. Key word MOST.

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what a load of yap lmao

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#47  Edited By uchihaghost  Online

Many many feats being overlooked and naruto characters not receiving any scaling, thats quite sad

> kid chouji feat

> jirobo feat

> juugo using the same CM that amped jirobo and kimmimaru being stated to be capable of stopping him, and juugo is a pure breed, kimmi is stated to be the strongest of the sound 5.

> SM Naruto's entire strength feats being dismissed

- sending a rhino a giant rhino summon into the clouds

- pulling kurama

> SM jiraiya kicking a giant bull summon like a soft ball

> 4 tails creating a stadium sized crater upon transforming

> guy and kakashi fighting other bijuu jinchuriki's in the war arc

> base kakuzu negging chouji's punch

> kakuzu stopping 2 tails attack woth domu

> 8 tails naruto breaking pein CT

> BM naruto roaring away other bijuus

> Full kurama >> half kurama

> raikage fighting hachibi

> killer bee fighting and overpowering raikage

> gedo statue stopping the mountain sandwich technique

> kcm naruto uppercutting the same gedo statue

> chouji and his dad capavle of pushing it back as well

> kisame surviving an island sized hirudora and after that overpowered a seal that is capable of restraining the 4 tails kurama

> base blind madara blitzing war arc with a SM naruto with a kick (no sage mode amps) and hashi with SM is even stronger

Etc etc

Imagine ignoring all these to reach a conclusion like OP did...

I guess we can cherry lick instances to downplay and say roger died to some fodders with blades, and white beard got hurt by some fodders etc, it did happen yes, but nobody downplays them to that level.

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@azureus: Top tiers physically compared to the rest of the cast at the time.

And weren't hiruzens retconned later?

I just checked myself. Jirobo and Tsunade are at a 5. Choji is not even a 5, but instead a 3.5.

I haven't seen anything regarding a stat retcon for Hiruzen. 4th databook entry doesn't include stats.

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@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:
@dogsrus said:
@edgelord91 said:

@dogsrus: Still not a strength feat for Gaara and no his sand is explicitly More powerful than his actual body.

nope

nope he was tanking hit's that were breaking through his sand from gated lee

No Caption Provided

Because of his secondary sand shell remember? And he substituted away from the finishing blow. His physicals aren't even on par with base Lee.

base lee destroyed his sand armour and he tanked several hits from gated lee

lee's lotus is also above his own physicals that's why he can only do it once

Nope she's literally stated to be as strong as Tsunade after achieving her seal if not stronger. Remember Karin had healed Tsunade before this and both Sakura and shizune have seen Tsunade's true strength.

tsunade always collect chakra to maintain her strength and age she had used up all that chakra in her fight against madara she wasn't at full power

And? Sakura and shizune have seen her power BEFORE fighting pain and Madara.

The cloak matched a level 2 curse mark Sasuke which is a confirmed 10x amp so 5x sounds about right. The point though is BASE Naruto being under 100 tons is consistent.

it isn't their is several feats like him breaking through haku's mirror's his final clash between neji way more than that

Both of these were Kyuubi amped. No contradicton.

their is kyubi amped naruto vs haku is weaker than the kyubi amp he had against neji naruto by the end of timeskip is equal to neji in base meaning 100 tonner easily

It was guy's physicals that CREATED THE ISLAND LEVEL ATTACK remember?

yes but the island level attack didn't take him out guy's punch did

Yeah guy's DIRECT HIT finished what his air pressure couldn't. Again no contradiction.

the airpressure was already large island punch is higher than that

I'm saying the magic depends on their environment so for VS battles it's not a counter argument.

if natsu stopped amping himself with magic he would be human level in dura which is my point

Thats not how it works. It's passive depending on the environment.

sure

It's not a gag Sakura can consistently harm other genin such as ino. It's just more evidence that it needs to be a large strength gap or high level defense to no sell which is consistent.

no their fight with ino shows that it is gag ino is the weakest genin we see physically she relies heavily on her mind replacement jutsu

NOT A GAG. And yeah ino sucks but it's still consistent.

it isn't ino is so much weaker than any character that she couldn't fight them and she tied with sakura in an upset no less everyone expected ino to win

Yeah the cloak is an extremely strong layer of defense.

they have to scale to

Yeah and that's an AMPED NARUTO.

he has to scale to his own amps or his body will be destroyed

Safe mode is a high level amp which Rolt addressed in the opener.

it is a 10x amp naruto's least powerful amp

No it's more powerful than his pre KCM forms.

you stated other wise before and naruto straight out states kcm is stronger than sage mode

No you don't. The entire point of gates 4-8 is your pushing your body beyond what it can naturally withstand. That's the exception though for most instances your correct.

no it's letting your body use its own power but your body can not normally with stand it with out side effect only the eight gates is fatal

Thats the first 2 gates.

actually all the gates in fact the 4th gate is for healing

Fodders to him yes but the point is their not weak and he was heavily nerfed not a good argument. And again several were vice admirals who are confirmed haki users.

captains were getting taken in the first arc of one-piece so they are fodder in general

Relative to white beard yes. It's not coincidence they all relied on piercing. Even Morgan was cutting railing with Air pressure.

yes piercing attacks from the equivalent of a literally ant

vice admirals arent even dofflamingo level

And? Their still well above the likes of pre time skip Luffy which is far above most Naruto characters. Virgo is one of doffy's top men and he has the edge against Sanji and smoker.

pre timeskip luffy wouldn't even break high end jounin let alone most naruto chars

No he wasn't. It's literally stated his sand armor was keeping him in the fight. And again he never even contested BASE lee physically ergo no scaling.

he literally survive several hits from him and was less injured after the fight shrugging to off like nothing happened

Lee amps his physicals to perform the lotus true but it doesn't change the fact Gaara doesn't compare.

gara survived all of lee's attacks with little diff

And Naruto being relative to neji proves what exactly? Neji isn't a hundred tonner either.

he is he survived and created the exploded that was as big as the stadium which requires way more than 100 tons worth of energy

Not if the amp explicitly comes with increased durability which why the gates have recoil damage but sage mode doesn't.

nope sagemode doesn't have recoil damage because the amp doesn't go past the chars durability the gates do it makes a person release more chakra than they can physically handle

No I didn't but yes KCM>sage mode.

Piercing against significantly stronger opponents is always an option. Even Spiderman gets hurt by ordinary bullets even though he explicitly hits like a mortar shell. Same applies to Naruto for the most part.

it doesn't kusanagi from Orochimaru who was only slightly weaker than 4 tails naruto chidori from sasuke who was roughly equal to naruto

By feats and scaling base Luffy pre time skip clears most of Naruto in brute strength. Key word MOST.

nope at best mid jounin is where pre time skip luffy is

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Its nothing new that Pre-God Tiers are glasscanons and physical weak.