JLA and X-Men VS. Death (Final Destination).

I know Death isn't exactly a comic book villain, but I thought this would be interesting.

Anyway, this would be the scenario: After an intense battle, both the X-Men and JLA narrowly survive with their lives. However, having felt "cheated" , a very bitter and vengeful DEATH comes after each and every one of the JLA members and X-Men. This is Death from the movie, "Final Destination", which is shapeless and never really reveals itself.

Questions: Rank from easiest kill for Death to the most difficult (or impossible): Which member of JLA and/or X-Men would Death have the easiest time killing? Which hero or heroines would actually survive the unseen Grim Reaper (and even have a chance of... defeating it?).

Death

Death.

Do you have a specific team in mind or are you thinking every X-Man who has been on the team?

Death.

Doesn't really matter how you die. If you can die, and do, Death wins by default. To beat Death, you need to actually work against it by either attaining immortality, resurrection abilities, or nullifying the concept of Death itself (assuming it is a concept and not a being).

Not really. If you die by old age or disease, Death has technically won. It doesn't need to make your death unnatural or violent (and in fact, a good number of deaths in the film are remarkably mundane). Death is literally a force of nature, not a being, though it does seem to have a sadistic sense of humor at times. Death is literally, well, death. The only thing that movies have done is given Death some characterization, in as much as you can characterize a force of nature.

What is an NLF is suggesting that Lucifer Morningstar cannot die at all under any circumstances, which is patently false. If he can die, and does, Death wins.

Any form of death is a victory for Death. Death is once again, not a character with tangible "feats". It is simply the expiration of life. I reiterate that Death doesn't actually need to kill anyone unnaturally and is content with simply waiting you out. It'll just kill the next schmuck on its list to balance its books in the meanwhile. To say that Death has never killed anyone by old age or disease is patently false, since none of the characters in the movie are immortal or otherwise incapable of dying. If someone in the universe of the movies has died by old age and disease (which is definitive), then Death has done its job.

Since Superman has actually died before, Death has already won. The only real ambiguity is the parameters of what constitutes a "victory" for Death in the context of this "battle". Does Death lose of it fails to kill a character within a certain time limit? Does Death win if it can kill a character with resurrection abilities even once (with any further resurrections afterwards being irrelevant)? Or does it need to actually find a way to nullify that character's ability (or kill him enough times) so he cannot resurrect?

Unless you can prove that these characters are completely incapable of dying in any way or finding a way to make themselves incapable of dying, then Death still automatically wins.

I perfectly understand that Lucifer is not above Death and capable of dying (which in and of itself means you can't be above Death), and therefore Death wins by default. Because no parameters were posted for the battle which enable Death to lose, short of being pitted against a character that cannot die at all or can erase the idea of Death, that's the working assumption. Death is not a character with "feats", it's simply the fact that life can end and expire. I don't see what part of that you don't understand.

Actually, you are severely underestimating the concept of Death. Being able to die inherently means you are not above Death, and Lucifer being able to die means that Death wins by default. Death is simply the expiration of life. That's it. In the absence of parameters to specify a loss for Death in this "battle", we simply assume that it goes on indefinitely and only ends when either a character dies (in which case Death wins) or makes it completely impossible for them to die (in which case that character wins).

@reaperdewpider: Your arguments are completely sound. Death is death, so the mere capability of dying means that it wins, barring anything in an OP post to define a loss for it (or any actual parameters). This is, however, the pitfall of putting a force of nature in a battle scenario. You need to really define how it can "lose" here, otherwise it wins if short of the opponent being some high level conceptual or reality manipulator.

@deadannoy: Disagreeing on definitions because the rules and parameters of a battle are vague or even who or what exactly one of the combatants are, does not constitute a "flame war".

@lpercepts: Thank you! Finally, a response that makes sense and gets at what I am saying.

Well, this thread doesn't seem to have been very well thought out to begin with, since it doesn't properly define what constitutes "Death" the entity (if we can even call it that). Does "Death" encompass the mere act of dying or being able to? Or do we treat it as a "character" with "feats"? And if the latter, do we restrict it to FD? Or any notion of someone dying in all involved franchises in the battle? Clarification was much needed, as well as, as you say, a way for Death to "lose" in a battle scenario. Because, as you have mentioned, FD runs on the notion that you will die eventually anyway. The thing that the movies run on is the fact that these character just don't want to die at that particular point in time, either because they are young and have their lives going for them, aren't "ready" to leave this life yet, or some other factor. Of course, Death doesn't care about any of this, you die when it says you do.

I just realized I haven't given my opinion on the battle itself. Death wins handily, if my previous comments weren't already any indication of such.

If you can die, you are inherently not above Death. So Death wins by default unless there are actual rules in a battle involving it or a character literally cannot die either due to their abilities or by some sort of design like being in a place where death is impossible or not allowed.

In as much as Death is a "character" with a "personality", it does appear to have some complexity addiction, since it goes out of its way to kill people by improbable means that still at least sound plausible rather than making someone just simply drop dead with no explanation (which I don't doubt it can do).

Except all of those characters you listed can die, so they are not above Death inherently. And Medaka lost her powers after the series anyway, so she is far from being above Death. I'm not doubting that characters can warp reality to prevent themselves from dying, but if their existence is still ended in some way, they still "die" anyway, so death can't really be warped out of existence per se. At this point, though, you are listing characters that do not even come from JLA or the X-Men (as per the OP post), so they are irrelevant to this "battle".

I am saying that Death wins this battle because none of the characters that qualify as opponents against it (JLA and X-Men) in this battle are immortals or otherwise absolutely cannot die. You're the one derailing the topic and beinging in characters that have nothing to do with the battle itself.

@reaperdewpider: Honestly, if someone needs to being in outside context characters or concepts to even have a point or a leg to stand on to argue for something, it's best not to take them seriously. You can use some outside context things to substantiate your point, but it those things are wholly your point, then they're just moving the goalposts arbitrarily and making up stuff that has nothing to do with the battle itself.

Has Superman ever worn Cosmic Armor in any sort of capacity as part of the JLA? Doesn't look like it. So this is an irrelevant point. Once again, it still looks like you are bring in outside context stuff just for the sake of arguing with any substantive point. Using the JLA implies that these characters act in their capacity as part of the JLA, and not independent actors. This is akin to using an outlier feat since Superman isn't anywhere near as strong inherently and on average.

@deadannoy: Once again, since Superman has not worn Cosmic Armor in his dealings as part of the JLA, this point is irrelevant since it is not a part of the battle itself.

If Cosmic Armor Superman is not part of the JLA, there is no point in bringing it up since it is unlikely that the OP has any intention of using him in the battle itself. There is no point in using iterations of JLA characters that are not part of the JLA proper (or outside franchise characters for that matter) to argue.

I agree. This is turning farcical, to tell you the truth.

Because Cosmic Armor Superman is not part of the JLA and the OP presumably has no intention of him being used in this battle, arguing for whether he can die or not is moot.

Naturally, though, because Superman can and has died, then Death wins by default. There is no evidence whatsoever that the JLA superman is completely immune to Death. Because there is no proof whatsoever that "death" is a physical being or a demon, we err on the notion that it is a force of nature, albeit one with a personality, and that any cessation of life is Death doing its work.

Death doesn't have "feats". It's simply the cessation of life. Unless Superman is outright immortal or cannot be killed at all, then Death will still get him, even if it has to go the long way around.

@reaperdewpider: This is what happens when you put a nebulous concept or force of nature in a battle scenario without a clear set of rules for how it can lose in the scenario. You get stuck arguing definitions and parameters all day long.

Death is not a person or a "character" in any conventional sense, so not having "feats" isn't a big deal here. It's a force of nature that is the definition of the absence of life in something that was once living. Any cessation of life is Death in action. Therefore, since Superman has died (several times in fact), Death wins by default.

It's not a big deal, since concepts don't need feats. They are just definitions of something. Of course, that doesn't stop a franchise from giving a concept some form of characterization, but that doesn't make it a character in and of itself per se. FD gives Death the characterization of skipping people until later, which is fine, but not terribly relevant to the battle. If a concept is binding on a character and does what by definition it's supposed to do, then it wins by default unless the battle has rules to say otherwise, which is not applicable in this case.

But the Flash can still die and is not immune to Death, ergo Death wins by default. Running at FtL speeds is not a defense against dying. Being bound by the capability to die means that Death "touches" you by default.